~~Posted by kenosha Marge
I remember some very lively Holiday Dinner table conversation when I was growing up. That’s because my mother and her family were all Republicans and my father and his family were all Democrats. Politics was often the topic.
I remember heated arguments with yelling and with laughter. We took our politics seriously in my family. What I don’t remember is the anger and the hate. Nowadays in order to be a good Democrat you are supposed to hate the Republicans.
Republicans are also expected to hate Democrats. Who thought this was a good idea?
I’m not very good at hating. Most of the time loathing is the best I can manage. Hate takes too much energy and often harms the hater more than the hatee. Hating someone simply because they favor one party over another would be like hating Chicago Bears fans just because I am a lifelong Packer Backer. Well… maybe a Bears fan…
I grew up to become a Democrat. That was fine with my family because my Republican Mom voted for JFK and my Democratic Dad hated Ike and loved Truman.
In our family voting was stressed, not who you voted for. Of course around those holiday dinner tables you had best be prepared to defend your choice. Those who offered nothing but Talking Points were laughed out of the conversation. Voting was stressed but it was expected that when you voted you made a good decision based on all the information you could find.
I was a moderate, loyal Democrat who voted a straight Democratic ticket forover 40 years with one small exception. I voted for a Green Candidate, one Rae Vogler over our DINO Senator Herb Kohl. And I enjoyed doing it. And will do it again if given the chance.
I am now a moderate, liberal Independent. I saw first hand the ugliness that has infested the party I supported for all those years. I saw arrogance, corruption and misogyny and I was disgusted. So I became disinclined to support them for what they have become. Don’t even get me started on what I think about the media. Now there’s something I could almost bring myself to hate.
The Holiday Dinner table conversation now tends to keep away from politics. Someone always gets angry and someone always insults someone else and the conversation becomes nasty and juvenile. We’ve come along way baby and it isn’t for the good. Politics affects our lives every single day. We must talk, reasonably, about them and not in an echo chamber or how can we grow and learn?
I confess that I have reached the point where I am not interested in a conversation about Obama. I know all I care to know about this person. The time comes when you decide you have all the information you need to make a decision.
I’ve reached that point.
Having reached my decision based on information garnered over many months I don’t want to argue about it anymore. You have your idea and I have mine and if we are both content then that’s that. Right?
For most of my family that’s okay. However one Obamacrat Granddaughter regards me as a traitor and has even gone so far as to suggest a bit of racism on my part. I nipped that in the bud quickly and forcefully. I do not hate my Obamacrat Granddaughter. I confess to being a little disappointed because she doesn’t make a good argument for her choice. She spouts talking points and facts run off her like water off a duck’s back. She was raised better but now, sigh, seems to only listen to her boyfriend; a condescending jerk who regards me as an over-the-hill senile female person unable to understand and appreciate his brilliance.
So here we sit. Still a family divided but not with good humor and respect for other’s opinions. Now if you don’t agree with one side or another there’s a pretty fair chance you will NOT be receiving a Christmas card this year. Who knew; disagree with a relative and save a tree.
Filed under: Current Politics | Tagged: Barack Obama, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Rae Vogler, Sen. Herb Kohl |
InsightAnalytical -- Watching Our World 
Delurking because I experienced a very unsettling, similar situation two days ago.
My family were raised on the beliefs that are common to most liberals. We live several hours apart. In one day, I had breakfast with one sister who told me there was no way that any liberal person would not vote for Obama, (because of the Supreme court argument) and the other sister came in for dinner and gave me the same lecture. Needless to say, in the first instance, stunned as I was, my response was “Watch it happen”. In the second, my sister stomped out of my house and disappeared for three hours, came back and by mutual unspoken agreement, there was no further discussion.
The troubling aspect of this is that I said nothing to indicate that I would not consider Obama, just tried to gently steer them away from believing everything they read in the papers and toward investigating through the internet and other venues. In all my years as a liberal, I have never, never seen such attitudes and extreme behavior from any member of my family, most of whom have been politically active throughout their lives.
“Stunned” does not adequately describe my feelings, perhaps “Appalled” would be more appropriate. My beautiful, intelligent, educated sisters …… versus me. What hath Obama wrought? He hasn’t just divided the Democrat party, he has divided families. No wonder that Palin and McCain are looking more palatable, even though I find some of their beliefs appalling as well.
I suspect your granddaughter has simply fallen under the spell of the Obamapunk boyfriend. She’ll apologize to you once she sees through him and dumps him.
Obama says he’s the uniter. And he is – unless someone doesn’t support him.
I keep being surprised at the similar stories we all have to tell. From the “I supported Edwards before Hillary blew them all away” to the “My family seems to be in tatters now that I’m not voting for Obama” to “I have to defend myself against charges of r*cism because I don’t like BO”. I think we have so much in common.
And it ‘s just plain wonderful that we have found one another.
Maybe the uniter thing really does work. 😉
We were always democrats. During my first election between JFK and Nixon, my dad was extolling the Nixon points and I figured he would vote for him. Turns out he voted for JFK and I was impressed. I was 21 during that election (actually became 21 in 1958) but very late in the year. So 1960 was my first ‘real’ election. We were from California and I was a stupid kid and was very pro CA so I voted for Nixon. I was in AZ at the time and cast my ballot absentee. I had registered as a Republican because as my dad said, register as one of the two parties because at least then you get to vote in the primary. Immediately following the election, I changed my registration to Democrat and have been since. I voted in the next election for LBJ and that was another vote I’d like to have taken back. I missed the ‘Daisy’ ad but saw it later. Turned out the Daisy ad was a precursor of LBJ, not Goldwater. Following that was of course the 1968 debacle in which I voted for HH but pretty much knew he would lose. I have been mostly liberal with a rather humanitarian bent. I think you call me a libertarian. I’ve voted for liberals (LBJ, HH, McGovern) Middle of the roaders (Carter, Mondale) and right wingers (Reagan and both Bushes). Since LBJ I’ve pretty much voted with my conscience and seriously considered Obama in the early going after I heard him speak. I cannot even stand to look at him now. After reading some of things on the HC Forum and other PUMA sites, the hypocricy and downright cheating of his group has emboldened me to vote McCain. I’ve voted for Republicans before both on the local state and federal level, often holding my nose. But really, Ms. Palin will make me smile when I pull that lever or punch that chad (don’t know which yet!)
I missed being old enough to vote for JFK by about 6 months and have always felt bad about that.
I have voted for every damn Democrat that came down the pike until now. (Oh and that one Green vote I mentioned above.)
But I will vote Republican for the first time in all those years this November. It has nothing to do with HIllary Clinton. It has everything to do with what the Democratic Party has allowed itself to become.
Having Sarah Palin on the ticket will make the vote a little easier to swallow.
Many of us have taken differing routes to get to the same place. We simply can’t support our party’s canidate this time. We may not feel good about it but I for one, am damn determinded about it.
Forgot to add I have a daughter fascinated with Obama. She thinks Keith Olberman is the greatest (WTF?). She is 40 years old and acts like a kid. I told her to check him out, he is an empty suit but so far refuses to do so. I have a son who’s wife is a liberal and refuses to vote for anyone but a democrat. No critical thinking at all. All democrats my be good (WTF again). My son is lead around by her, politically speaking. Maybe some of things now coming out and the fact the Republicans have actually made a race out of it will hope their eyes. I hope so, but I can only hope. Some people are just so blinded. Of course they are my kids and I love them, and I can’t tell them what to do, I can only point out their folly. We won’t hate each other about that we just don’t discuss it much.
Gah, I need a thought checker.
All democrats MUST be good.
Will OPEN their eyes.
Sorry.
Andy, I know what ya mean. I love my Granddaughter dearly. That doesn’t mean that I don’t want to hit her over the head repeatedly until she starts thinking again.
I love her dearly. I always will. That doesn’t mean I much like her at this point in time.
Marge and Andy,
My son, and his amazing wife are both so stirred by the “hope and change” spoken by Precious, that they shake their heads in wonder that their smart, liberal, thinking mother (mother-in-law) could consider NOT voting for The One. I keep telling them that I HOPE they will read the information I continue to provide for them so they will CHANGE their thinking about The Fraud. (of course I don’t call Him names – to them at least.)
I adore them both, and I will still love them after the election. I just hope that if BO prevails (gah, I hate that word), the change isn’t too great a shock when they find out I was right —- again.
(posted this same thought on another thread. it more accurately belongs here)
My two sisters are gay. They are horrified at the prospect of a McCain presidency and at my stated intention to vote for him. So far they’ve not pushed it but if they do I will tell them that I have two words for anyone who harbors any illusions that Barack Obama will champion gay causes…Donnie McClurkin.
Agree the important thing is to vote. Nice that families can bring healthy points to the argument supporting one person over the other. Bummer if it gets polarizing and nonsensical. That usually doesn’t win support. Good discussion can sometimes win over someone.
Still think the support for BHO comes from this hope-y change-y wishy washy click your heels I’m in la la latte land mistaken belief, that everything will just be peachy arugula keen if only you replace the stodge element in positions of power, and replace with happy skipping twits who THINK they know better. Gotta admit, age does bring wisdom, and usually better judgement to make ugly decisions. Ain’t no calling mommy or daddy for help. That’s why the older folks are usually the ones entrenched in the decision making positions. Because they’ve been burned enough while going around the block quite a # of times, that they can actually manage relatively speaking, better than the twit they think they know it all already. And of course, let;s not forget the hardships of yesteryear, which has instilled the resilient spirit and work ethic in the folks older than BHO. What do BHO folks know? lifestyles of the rich and famous. The lifestyles of those who had to endure the hardships of the depression, WW/Korean/Viet Nam eras, taught folks how to manage as best as possible under the circumstances. Hope-y Change-y be darned, along with the sense of entitlement to an easy life.
Sorry for the diatribe. No Zero-bama
No apologies necessary. It was a good diatribe. 😉
I think back to the youngen that thought she knew so much many, many years ago and compare it to this old bat that knows how little she knows and how much she still has to learn and I cringe.
Not all of us get wiser. Some just get older. Hopefully, enough of us learn enough that our knowledge helps the dialouge and the process.
Youthful energy is fine so long as that energy works along side knowlegde. One needs the other. Smart youngsters know that as do wise older people. It’s the nitwits from young to old and all in between that worries me.
It is difficult either way. Politics is just one of those conversations that can send the kids running or staying. I have two in college and both sit on opposite sides of the fence. Grandmother tries very hard not to start the food fight. I can say that we try to laugh a lot when we are in the midst of it.